Tonight on #mochat we talked about the conflict between art and commercial work. A lot of varying definitions of art and a lot of fuzzy lines. I’d like to say there was a lot of consensus on the topic, but everyone’s opinions varied. One thing we did seem to agree on is that we all have a need to be creative whether from solving client problems or creating something of lasting value.

Transcript

  1. Motion Chat@MotionChat

    Welcome to #mochat everyone! Tonight we’re talking about work as art vs commercial products.

  2. Motion Chat@MotionChat

    If you’re new to #mochat, you can read more at motionleague.com/mochatMain thing is to remember to include the hashtag.

  3. Motion Chat@MotionChat

    We like to experiment, create meaning, and make an impact. But how much is art? Especially with clients over our shoulders? #mochat

  4. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @MotionChat Not to get too deep into meaning of art… client work can be creative, but isn’t art. Personal projects can be. #mochat

  5. Tom Daigon@lasvideo

    Maybe operating definitions are needed for both words so we are all talking the same meaning here. #mochat

  6. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @lasvideo In broad terms, I’d say art would be something of personal meaning with a message and cultural value. #mochat

  7. Charles Rowland@RagingClaw

    @conigs @MotionChat i can’t call anything a client wants art, because it never ends up what i envisioned cause of their… input #mochat

  8. Ronn Trevino @rovino

    hello party people.. #mochat

  9. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @RagingClaw I know @bran_dj mentioned something a while ago about not relying on clients for creative art, instead do personal work. #mochat

  10. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @rovino Hey, Ronn! #mochat

  11. Motion Chat@MotionChat

    @eyedesyn: @conigs @MotionChat I think video as an art form is a concept that is very new to the world of art to begin with.” #mochat

  12. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @eyedesyn True. #mochat

  13. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @RagingClaw @lasvideo I’m not even going to wrap that tweet in the #mochat tag.

  14. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    Does anyone have examples of client/commercial work they would hold up as being considered art? And why? #mochat

  15. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @eyedesyn @RagingClaw @bran_dj But how much of that was done with their client over their shoulder dictating color, timing, etc? #mochat

  16. Mike Florio@mrmikeflorio

    @conigs ummmm pretty much everything BUCK and BLUR makes #mochat

  17. Motion Chat@MotionChat

    Hey everyone. Remember to add this to your tweet -> #mochat

  18. Ronn Trevino @rovino

    RMT @MotionChat: “@eyedesyn: @conigs “video as an art form…new to the world of art.” #mochat w/ that in mind name some video art. #mochat

  19. Charles Rowland@RagingClaw

    @eyedesyn @conigs @bran_dj yeah but jesus didn’t keep telling him to make the blues bluer and the reds shinier… #mochat

  20. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    @conigs it’s difficult to call commercial work “art” by it’s very nature. I would say that there’s an “art” to it, though. #mochat

  21. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @RagingClaw “Can you warm up that blue? It just feels so cold.” #mochat #mochat

  22. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @daveglanz Technique as art, definitely. And that brings about an entirely different angle on the discussion. #mochat

  23. Charles Rowland@RagingClaw

    @conigs sure, let me stab you in the face so your warm blood heats it up… pops i mean, yeah ill move these pixels here… #mochat

  24. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @daveglanz Actually, managing clients can be an art form, too. #mochat

  25. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    @conigs I think a lot of this depends on your definition of “art” – which can be subjective. #mochat

  26. Charles Rowland@RagingClaw

    gotta go peeps! crap! #mochat

  27. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @RagingClaw Miss you! #mochat

  28. Tom Daigon@lasvideo

    Like I said. We must define what art is before we can broaden the discussion. #mochat

  29. Clever Mammals@CleverMammals

    @mrmikeflorio @conigs Check this one out. Brand new commercial out of Assembly in Auckland NZ #mochat vimeo.com/73094973

  30. Isaac Light@IsaacLight_

    @conigs the work itself, I think is an art. But client work rarely comes through. #mochat

  31. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @lasvideo It’s personal, though. And it’s okay if definitions vary from person to person. What do you define as art? #mochat

  32. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    @lasvideo big part of what we define as “art” depends on perspective. Maybe something becomes “art” only after we look back at it. #mochat

  33. Ronn Trevino @rovino

    Any mograph piece can be considered art.. once its use is meant to gain, motivate or entice for commercial gain… its def changes #mochat

  34. Tom Daigon@lasvideo

    Like the Supreme Court judge said when asked what porn is “I know it when I see it”. 😀 #mochat

  35. SocialWorldBuzz@SocialWorldBuzz

    Checking out • Tuesday’s ✓ #MoChat — discussion for Motion Designers ▸ 29:00 ET

  36. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @rovino I think there’s two things that can remove it from art: client dictation, commercial motivations. #mochat

  37. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    so we can look back at commissioned work, like the titles for “Seven” or Michelangelo’s work and it’s easy to call it “art” #mochat

  38. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @daveglanz In those cases, how much wis directed by studios, though? Commissioned but free direction is rare in mograph. #mochat

  39. Ronn Trevino @rovino

    @conigs I’d reconsider client input. only because artwork. can be commissioned and input could be part of that request.. #mochat

  40. Tom Daigon@lasvideo

    I think Saul Basses movie mographs would fit my definition of art. #mochat

  41. Tom Daigon@lasvideo

    I have 1 or 2 clients that are on the same frequency as me and we inspire each other to create “art”. #mochat

  42. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @rovino Theres nuance there, though. I feel project parameters and change orders/feedback are different. #mochat

  43. Motion Chat@MotionChat

    @BettyChinWu: Art=when I’m given the freedom to stir a reaction creatively, make an impression, without any deadline or client” #mochat

  44. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @bran_dj @RagingClaw That might have been it. #mochat

  45. Tom Daigon@lasvideo

    Subjectivity makes empirical discussion difficult. One mans art is another mans fart 😀 #mochat

  46. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    I think another important question here is, does our work *have* to be art? I’d say in most cases, no. #mochat

  47. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @lasvideo Ha. True. The line is fuzzy for sure, but there’s definitely examples on both sides. #mochat

  48. Ronn Trevino @rovino

    MT @daveglanz: …does our work *have* to be art? I’d say in most cases, no. #mochat seen my work huh? 8) #mochat

  49. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @daveglanz Not for the job, no. But I think as an individual in a creative field, we need something that feeds the right brain. #mochat

  50. EJ Hassenfratz@eyedesyn

    @MotionChat @BettyChinWu there’s so much art out there that was made for a client & had deadlines. Being an artist is a job too! #mochat

  51. Betty Chin-Wu@BettyChinWu

    @MotionChat But when given limitations, and a problem to solve, that’s more design, less artistic freedom. Great topic! Have fun #mochat

  52. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    @conigs “feeds the right brain” – now I”m hungry. #mochat

  53. William J. Meyer@robotika_org

    @conigs The BMW shorts from awhile back. Similarily, the @RedGiantNews films. B/C they can transcend their function of selling. #mochat

  54. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    If I had to define the two, I’d say art is about creating meaning, design is about solving problems. And there’s a mix. #mochat

  55. Ronn Trevino @rovino

    @BettyChinWu its those limitations and problems that lend to creativity.. is that not the essence of art? #mochat

  56. Mike Florio@mrmikeflorio

    @daveglanz this statement holds alot of weight:some of it’s for the meal some of it’s for the reel #mochat

  57. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @robotika_org That’s a good point. Pieces that can move being simply peddling wares are more on the art side of the scales. #mochat

  58. Jerome Green@floppinharry

    @daveglanz: I think another important question here is, does our work *have* to be art? I’d say in most cases, no. #mochat” I’d agree

  59. Paul Slemmer@paulslemmer

    I think this is why we call our work design. The goals are form and function, not artistic expression. #mochat

  60. Tom Daigon@lasvideo

    I aspire to good works with clients. At home exploring techniques I feel closer to making art. #mochat

  61. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    @mrmikeflorio is now the Don King of mograph. #mochat

  62. Ronn Trevino @rovino

    @daveglanz thats Mr Don King to you… 8) #mochat

  63. danny princz@rendernyc

    Driving atm so won’t make #mochat but pulled over. Please check Harry Franks medical fund page. Help out if u can giveforward.com/fundraiser/66y…

  64. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    “You shouldn’t be looking for your own personal artistic satisfaction from client work.” – Orion Tait, Buck vimeo.com/70642037 #mochat

  65. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    @mrmikeflorio hah! It’s the rhyming! #mochat

  66. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    Last tweet courtesy of @bran_dj. twitter.com/bran_dj/status… #mochat

  67. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    @rendernyc @graymachine is almost 90 percent funded. #mochat

  68. danny princz@rendernyc

    Driving atm so won’t make #mochat but pulled over. Please check Harry Franks medical fund page. Help out if u can giveforward.com/fundraiser/66y…

    Retweeted by Bran
  69. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @daveglanz @rendernyc @graymachine So happy to see that it’s almost there. #mochat

  70. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    What do you do for creative freedom/art if your day job is client work? #mochat

  71. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    @rendernyc in other words, big pat on the back to this community for pitching in! Warms the heart. #mochat

  72. Dave Glanz@daveglanz

    @conigs obsessively watch movies, take photos of the baby, cook. #mochat

  73. Seth Eckert@seth_eckert

    @paulslemmer agreed! #mochat

  74. Ronn Trevino @rovino

    RT @conigs: What do you do for creative freedom/art if your day job is client work? #mochat does BeAtBoXing count? #phhffttttbopbop #mochat

  75. EJ Hassenfratz@eyedesyn

    @BettyChinWu I think when you are good enough to have clients work with you on some of your own terms, that’s when art can happen #mochat

  76. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @bridgewindsoup @eyedesyn @RagingClaw @bran_dj Few lines are hard, but there’s some that definitely fall to either side. #mochat

  77. Thom May@bridgewindsoup

    @eyedesyn @conigs @RagingClaw @bran_dj everything has a prompt #mochat

  78. Seth Eckert@seth_eckert

    @conigs I like to think I get artistic satisfaction from my work, I think the key to success there is diversifying what each job is #mochat

  79. Betty Chin-Wu@BettyChinWu

    @eyedesyn Finding the balance btw the client vs tasteful art is a game. My goal-get paid enough to keep learning/making cool things #mochat

  80. Seth Eckert@seth_eckert

    @eyedesyn yea I feel half the job is selling yourself, I’d like to think I dont work with clients that demand drone work #mochat

  81. Betty Chin-Wu@BettyChinWu

    @conigs Nice Paul 😉 #mochat

  82. Tom Daigon@lasvideo

    I aspire to good works with clients. At home exploring techniques I feel closer to making art. #mochat

    Retweeted by Seth Eckert
  83. Paul Slemmer@paulslemmer

    A possibly dangerous fallacy is that creative fulfillment is only found in art. Client work often forces creativity. #mochat

  84. Paul Conigliaro@conigs

    @paulslemmer True. Creativity can be found in many things, not just art. #mochat

  85. Victoria@FakeGreenDress

    @paulslemmer Think you’re dead on. The best is when client stuff is interesting work I’d never think to do on my own. #mochat

  86. craigwhitaker@qsjcraig

    What’s up y’all #mochat

  87. Tom Daigon@lasvideo

    ART!! #mochat

  88. Victoria@FakeGreenDress

    @conigs Doing non-animation creative stuff helps and doesn’t feel like more work. I host a history podcast called @ahappening. #mochat

  89. Seth Eckert@seth_eckert

    Creativity in making complexity simple grants the most fulfillment to me. Collaboration is also one of my favorite things to do #mochat

  90. Shinsuke Matsumoto@beatgram

    @paulslemmer @conigs The art is awesome. But the art isn’t everything. I wanna be an artist though. #mochat

  91. Tom Daigon@lasvideo

    Art is a result of the creative process. But all creativity is not art 😀 #mochat

  92. Betty Chin-Wu@BettyChinWu

    @eyedesyn Some clients…sometimes, you make filet mignon, but they just insist on ground meat. #mochat

  93. Charles Rowland@RagingClaw

    @bridgewindsoup @eyedesyn @conigs @bran_dj I’ve been looking into getting some prints for the walls. ando hiroshige is a fav #mochat

  94. Motion Chat@MotionChat

    5 minutes left of #mochat!

  95. Motion Chat@MotionChat

    And that about does it for tonight. Thanks for coming out for #mochat everyone. And as always, #GoMakeSomething.